Morning Mohak, it's Rory ☺️
This morning, I messaged Mohak. He has postponed it until next weekend (he has another appointment today which he forgot about). No problem for me. I was not feeling ready anyway. It was happening too quickly for me to process or feel comfortable. I have suggested Friday. Why? Because I have a backup plan for if he bails on me. We arranged Friday but I purchased a ticket for the LL event to have as a backup plan.
[10:12, 03/05/2021] Mohak: Sorry again. Cancelling after suggesting it. I hope you still have something fun to do today
This has been going on. Since my advice has not been heeded, I am feeling a little exasperated, exhausted, stressed out and above all, powerless. I am wondering what my purpose is. Am I merely a sounding board? Since it is affecting my mental / emotional health and wellbeing, I am including it in here with the provisos that:
It is split over a few days. The ultimate goal is that if I do decide to carry on the conversation, there must be some return. I will count the number of words I provided yesterday,, work out a value for that time and charge per word accordingly. At least, that way, if you are not taking my advice, it will be less painful and frustrating for me and there will be some return. You are rich so I do not think that there will be any issue with me charging you by the word.
Who is Ben? You met him on Tinder. He is from the UK (Manchester). You have been speaking to him for a few days now. He is looking for a friendship.
That is great 👍
Remember, take it s...l...o...w 😉
He is looking for a friendship not a relationship. What are you looking for? In him? A friend. You are looking forward to meeting Ben. He seems a bit interested in it.
OK you can see the picture of Ben. He does have a boyfriend. And he is looking for a friendship. A boyfriend for 8 months now. The problem for Ben is quite similar to your friend Stephen (who blocked you a couple of years ago). He only met his boyfriend online (Instagram)
Why would meeting his boyfriend online (Instagram) be a problem? What happened with Stephen a couple of years ago? He only dates guys online.
Why would that be a problem? Dating someone online can be risky. You never know, he might ask you for money or something harmful. That is true.
But you are not dating Ben are you? You have already said that Ben is looking for a friendship not a relationship. Not yet. Ben is asking his boyfriend if you can have sex and sleep over with each other. The guy is taken with Ben AND another guy.
I am confused. You are speaking with Ben, right? Yes. Who is asking this (Ben is asking his boyfriend if you can have sex and sleep over with each other). Ben. Ben needs permission from his boyfriend if you and Ben can do sexual activities. He is comfortable with it. And you are even thinking to go watch concerts together as he is into classical music.
Do you feel comfortable with it? Ben needs permission from his boyfriend to do sexual activities with you? Yes apparently. But you do not want to do sexual activities with Ben, you just want to meet him on a platonic basis? You do. He does, too.
You just want to meet him on a platonic basis? You are now "gay best friends". He wants to be your "gay best friend".
What is "gay best friend"? You do not know. He made that up.
LOL. OK. Well, I think that you need to make your own sense of it. It is just a label. But you need to decide for yourself what those boundaries are, regardless of him. Otherwise, it sounds like he is trying to control / define who you are through a label, which is not healthy. Have you asked him what he means by "gay best friend"? What that constitutes exactly? You are going to ask him later. OK yes, do, it sounds a bit confusing!
So, Ben is attracted to you. OK, take me through the conversation. After you had chats today. You do not know where to start.
Was it in person or via chat? Via chat. OK. You cannot meet each other because you are busy at the moment. Maybe next week you might meet together.
OK, so he told you that he is attracted to you in the chat? Yes, it is all about sexual activities.
In what sense? Umm well...
You sound a little uncomfortable. Perhaps you need to process the conversation. And that is OK.
You think that you are writing a list of things to do with Ben. Things to do with Ben as an activity, or things to do with Ben in general? It is good to write down things. Both. He likes to watch concerts. So you will watch a symphony concert in [city] and stay overnight. And you will take him to the expensive buffet for lunch since you have a voucher (for two, worth £100).
Will you stay overnight in separate beds/rooms? You do not know. Maybe together.
And this is the first time that you are meeting him in person? You think that he is free on Tuesday night. You will meet at his house and do something fun. You might stay at his house since Wednesday is a public holiday. He is going to check.
This is all a little concerning. To me, it looks like you are submissively going along with his wishes and desires without focusing enough on what you want. I can understand if you are looking for intimacy, but when you become intimate with someone, it can raise expectations and create unwanted complexity. By "being intimate", I mean hugging, kissing, sleeping over, all of those things that he mentioned in this long message.
All of the time, I am hearing from you "what he thinks", "what he feels". And not enough about "what you think" and "what you feel".
Like this for example:
[12:25, 29/04/2021]: He is attracted to me apparently even though he has his boyfriend that never met before
It is all about him being attracted to you and his boyfriend. You need to consider whether or not you are attracted to him. Whether the fact that he has a boyfriend might set some limitations in terms of what you guys can do together.
I think that sleeping over with him in the same bed on 1st meeting is not a sensible idea. I think that you should meet him and get to know him before doing that. How can you know if you are attracted to him if you have never met him in person? How can he know if he is attracted to you if he has never met you in person? I know that you guys have been chatting + messaging, which is great.
You are attracted to him, too. But if you have not met in person, it is difficult to judge whether or not you might be attracted to someone.
You have been chatting every day since Monday. Yes, that is great. Absolutely, meet him. But do not stay over. It could confuse things. What he said is not "taking it slow" if that is what he proposes to do on 1st meeting.
He told you that you can sleep over. Again - you are focusing on what he says. And that is nice of him to invite you. But maybe meet him first without staying over. So you can gauge whether he matches up to your expectations. Meeting someone in person is different from meeting them online. There is no need to rush.
He asked you what you like and what you do not like.
Remember what I said on 29/09/2020. About incorporating rules to help you pace yourself. Remember what happened with Callum. And how you stayed over and it complicated things. It made you expect him to reply straight away and he did not.
Read More: 28/09/2020
Ben asked you to go out. You can still go out. But I am asking you to think carefully before staying over and/or engaging in any intimate / sexual activity. It might raise false expectations. Trust me, I have been there. I have done similar things.
It is nice that he has invited you but I think that submissively accepting an invite to stay over with him is not giving yourself enough protection.
[20:24, 29/09/2020] Rory Duffy: I would advise you to work on increasing your patience. That's not a criticism - just something you need to work on, a little. To do that, there are some little techniques you could use.
Remember what we talked about having a 2nd agenda.
Remember when we were talking on 12/02/2021. There was a guy who contacted you. You met up with him but made your own accommodation arrangements. That was sensible. That is right. I am saying: do meet him. But make your own accommodation arrangements. Little by little.
You never met him. But you had the right idea about going to the library and making your own accommodation arrangements. That was smart. You had a backup plan. Sleeping over with strangers is not a good idea, no matter how much you might think that you know him or he might know you. It is not healthy.
You are a little worried about this because he sleeps completely naked. And you do not like that. Good. You have realised what you do not like. It is fine if it is a separate bed. Exactly. If it is something that you are not used to, being coerced into doing that is like letting a stranger put you outside of your comfort zone. It is hard to predict how it might make you feel.
It is good that you have noticed all of these things. It is good to write down these things. And compare / contrast them against similar situations. How did they make you feel? What would you do differently next time? etc etc. That way, you are focusing more on yourself and how you respond to those messages and situations, regardless of who you are engaging with, = more easy to track yourself and protect yourself.
He might be great, we do not know yet. By all means, meet him. But slow these bases and interactions down like the examples I explained to you before. It is a mechanism that helps you regulate and track what is going on so that you do not feel consumed by it.
Particularly rule #6 + #7. Here, you have abided rule #7 - writing things down. But rule #6 - the not sleeping with someone on 1st meeting - is something that could be abided.
What is the last message that you received from him / you sent to him? At this point, where have you got up to in the conversation?
You both use Kakaotalk and Snapchat. Your last conversation was that he needs to take a photo for his new British passport. You suggested a place to take a picture. The place I used to go a lot. He was saying too tired because of teaching duty at school. And he has to go to the language exchange. Now since he is in [country], he is a foreigner. If he does do something wrong, you could call the police and Ben could be deported to the UK. Kakeotalk is the thing in [country]. Every single person has it in [country]. You need it for everyday life. A few hours ago, he was talking to his father to get in touch via face chat.
It sounds like he has a lot on his plate (= a lot on his mind). Maybe he is just offloading and that is fine. You do not need to say anything. You can just listen.
He seems angry because you took a screen shot of the chat. He is asking you to delete.
How does he know that you took a screen shot of the chat? The Snapchat will know that you took a screen shot "you took a screen shot". Side note: personally, I would not chat to a stranger on any platform in which the stranger could see that a screen shot is being taken unless I were prepared to answer that question.
Well, do you think that you did anything wrong? No.You wanted to keep it for your record if something goes wrong. Exactly. Smart.
Well, he is not angry. So you just thought that he was angry, but he was not. He said that he is not comfortable with you taking a screen shot of your conversation.
How does that make you feel? Does that make you feel any less comfortable? Even if he deleted it, you can recover it. iPhone has a function to recover. But even if you did not delete it, he would not know? Right. So you can make that decision (over whether or not you wish to delete it) for yourself. Depending on how comfortable you feel.
It sounds like there is no "call to action"; he has not explicitly asked you "do not take a screen shot of your conversation". He is merely expressing his discomfort. Even if he did explicitly ask you, there is nothing to stop you transcribing or recalling bits of conversation. Like you did before. Apart from that, you can still express your respect for his feelings without allowing him to control what you can and cannot do. Do you see what I mean? Sometimes, it is good to strip down what someone says to the bare essentials and read it at face value. Without needing to think that they are "angry" or "upset".
You thought of something and this is what you have said to him:
"Okay I do respect that you have a partner and I understand that you are looking for friends. You mentioned "friends with benefits" and you are more than welcome to be intimate me. We can do something fun together like going to watch concerts later on. I know you got your own needs and I need my own needs and protect myself. I am not looking for any serious relationship. Just friends with benefits. I am fine with it. So ask your partner whether HE is okay with it. I am sure he will say yes. IF he says "Yes" then feel free. IF he says "NO" then unfortunately, that's too bad. We can be just normal friends."
Have you already sent it? Yes. OK.
You felt confused about what he wants. Yes, but again, I feel that you are focusing too much on what he wants, and not enough on what you want.
It is a nice message. Full of understanding and empathy, yet setting out your boundaries, which is great.
The only thing that I would say is that there is still a lot of labelling e.g., "normal" and "friends with benefits". Labels are helpful in transmitting meaning but the difficulty is that everyone has different understandings of what those labels mean, which might confuse things. Good that you have broken it down into activities like "intimate" and "watch concerts" to set out your expectations. When using labels, there can often be a danger of the focus becoming dominated by talk about the friendship / relationship rather than the shared interests / activities. But let us see what he says...
I think that you have done right by addressing this now before meeting him, in this way you have protected yourself by holding back slightly and managing expectations more effectively. big win win 👍👍
Ben's boyfriend said no sexual activities with others. You were quite shocked ever since Ben said to you that he is attracted to you and also confused. Now it seems clear. What seems clear? Clear to what is going on? He wants to be your friend but he is busy hanging out with others.
Why not find out what he is doing? It seems like he is keen to keep the conversation going. Tomorrow, he is going to have a Nintendo party.
Where? Who with? With his friends. Probably American and British.
He has said that he wants to be your friend. Have you expressed an interest in joining him at the Nintendo party? Their friends will probably say no. For instance, if you wanted to join his hangout but his American friend was saying no because he wanted to have a one-to-one thing.
But you do not know that. What do you want to do? You do not have to do anything. You are free to take a slight step back if you feel uncomfortable.
You want to find out more about him in person. So a dinner with him. That sounds sensible.
He said that he is going to the Arboreteum on Wednesday. But you said to him that it is boring.
Have you discussed when you are going to meet? Yes. You asked whether he is free tomorrow night but he was saying his friends are going to come over to his house for the Nintendo party (they are quite random).
What is it about him that makes you feel like you want to be his friend? It sounds like you might not have enough in common. You say that you do.
It is nice that he has expressed an interest in wishing to be a friend to you but will he follow through in his actions?
He wants to go watch concerts with you, but you will need to take a train to [city] and stay overnight because he lives quite far from the centre of the city.
At this early stage, watching a concert might be too much. What about doing something simpler? Like you say, having dinner? Too much of a big expectation, I mean, if it involves travel and overnight stays. It sounds complicated and demands a lot of trust if you do not know each other personally. I took a similar risk / gamble with JR but fortunately it worked out. He passed the test.
Read More: 29/06/2019, 30/06/2019
The concert is not until the end of May. Fair enough. You have time. Maybe meet for dinner beforehand? That is what you want to do.
What makes you attracted to be his friend? Well, originally sexual but you cannot anymore.
Things change and that is OK. But you do not owe him anything, do you? I understand that you were chatting about intimacy and sex but now his boyfriend has intervened. And that is why things have changed.
This is where you became a little upset. Understandably so. But their situation is not something that you can control, is it? It is annoying for sure. But you can still decide what you want out of the situation.
Last night, you became a little bit annoyed. That is why it is sometimes good to take a slight step back. Just to give yourself time to process everything and clear your head. Not to react in the moment.
As it happens, I am going through a similar situation right now. I am chatting to a guy on Facebook dating. It has been going fine until he casually dropped the bomb that he has a boyfriend. Anyway, we are possibly meeting tomorrow. Because I decided to not allow myself to get annoyed or upset, that there might be more to it than that and explore other possibilities find out what he’s about etc. But I am not meeting him unless I feel 100% comfortable meeting him and that I am ensuring that I get what I want out of the situation. If I am not feeling strong, I might rain check it, but I am trying to take the time to weigh up each response and not reply immediately in the heat of the moment. And being honest with myself ensure that I am feeling 💯
You were quite shocked. That is OK. It is OK to feel a little annoyed, too. It is his bad that he has not managed his expectations with you properly and let his business with his boyfriend / other friends (which should not be your problem) become a problem for you.
He said that he is a gentleman. But has he acted as one? What does that even mean, anyway? No. He hurt you. I am sorry. 😞
How has he hurt you?
He made you upset because:
You asked him twice for face chat. Both times, he refused.
Good that you have outlined the reasons clearly. Maybe he needed to sort himself out.
Has he asked how you are feeling? No. Actually, he did. He might have the capacity to ask, but not the capacity to follow up because he has his own stuff to deal with. By the sounds of the “getting drunk” / boyfriend issues. I still do not understand why you want to be his friend, though, if he is making you feel this way. It sounds like he is not showing enough care to warrant you being his friend. This is not to say that you will not ever be his friend or that he will not ever be your friend in the future. But maybe now is not a good time. You can still remain connected with him. But you do not have to feel obliged to offer him your friendship if you are not feeling satisfied.
You think that maybe you should say it to him. Yes, but remember, it might be difficult for him to hear it in those words if he is not open enough to hear them. Which is why we need to find a way in which you can step back lightly yet still leave the door ajar. What were the last messages? I realise that I am speculating a lot.
You have been trying to argue about things like all of your gay friends have sex and it seems his boyfriend is unclear about this. So, in the end, you cut this conversation because you did not want to argue further. Ben's partner was upset when Ben brought this to him.
A lot of that sounds like it is between him and his boyfriend. And the important relationship is between him and you (or, even more importantly, you and yourself). So, leave the boyfriend out of it just for one moment. Say something to him like:
“Hi Ben, I have been feeling a little stressed lately, can we please touch base in a couple of weeks. I would love to meet up for dinner but maybe now is a crazy time for both of us 😅 let me know your thoughts”
That way you are
Still leaving the door open while protecting yourself. It is about politely stating your needs and interests, whilst giving the other person the choice, that way the boundaries are clearer. Now I need to sleep. My non-"date" wants to meet me earlier at 12 tomorrow so I need to sleep / think on it. Let me know how you get on and how he responds.
You wrote it in a different way and he did not intended to hurt you or annoy you. What did you say?
I am sorry if you felt like i hurt you in any way, that was not my intention - I thought that we were both clear on the grounds of my boyfriend's approval? I admit that I should have messaged you earlier, it was only discussed on Saturday morning before my friends left - it will be decided today. A gentleman? Someone polite, respectful and gentle, I guess? I always try to be those things.
Did you write badly?
[12:34, 03/05/2021] Rory Duffy: Hi
Rory spent the first few years of his life in an ice cave, carving out his palace of wonder. He's a bit of a love doll, but he who melts the ice shall have his reward.
332 Brixton Road
Samaritans, 24 hours, on 116123 or email:
I have been recommended to acknowledge and process all that I have been though, where it all started from how it has affected me.